Speakers Christine Bodo (Christine Bodo), Ian Formanek (Ian Formanek)

Moderator Edward Ort (MDR-edO)

This is a moderated forum.

MDR-edO: Welcome to Java Live! Today's session is on Forté for Java Community Edition. Our guests are Christine Bodo, senior product manager for Netbeans, and Ian Formanek, Senior Architect and Engineering Manager for Netbeans. They'll answer your questions about this tool. So let's begin. Who has the first question?

Chris: One thing I would love to see is standardized interfaces to mature IDE components written in the Java^TM programming language, such as Editors (and who knows, maybe even class browser or UML modellers?). Is there any thought being put into this? Are there any standardization movements in Sun/NetBeans regarding this? Would you consider initiating something? Would you be able to work with others such as Borland, Cafe, Oracle, and the JEdit guy?

Christine Bodo: Chris, Ian Formanek is the best person to answer regarding our future architectural plans. I can respond in the meantime related to our current strategy around Forté for Java, Community Edition. Forté for Java, CE is based on open APIs, and is extensible. We encourage third party partnerships, and the creation of plugins to add customized tools to the environment. Take a look a look at the NetBeans site for more information about current technology partners, and our Open APIs.

Ian Formanek: The Java platform is currently very broad and covers more the lower level functionality. In the area you are describing, Forté for Java Open APIs is some sort of standardization. For instance, the IDE is designed rather as a platform with the APIs being "abstraction" of an IDE.

Jeff: One problem that is common to all the Java platform based IDEs out there is that every so often they are going to pause for garbage collection. This is very annoying if you're in the middle of editing a file. Can anything be done about this?

Ian Formanek: The garbage collection is a general Java programming issue, and it is currently addressed in two ways - first, performed by the JDK^TM Team, is a development of better algorithms and implement smoother GC (Hotspot^TM is a good example here), the second is on our side making sure that the IDE architecture and implementation addresses the performance issues and minimizes problems connected with GC.

Christine Bodo:: A question for our developers who have joined us: How many of you are new to the NetBeans IDE (now called Forté for Java), and what is your impression in relation to ease of use, and performance?

Jeff: I consider myself very hippocritical in that I tout Swing as being so hot, but I myself consider it to be too slow to use as an IDE!

Ian Formanek: Using Swing definitely imposes more performance issues, but the results we get when using last JDK 1.3^TM beta are veryt promising - especially in the responsiveness of the GUI (which is very hard to measure), there is a big improvement. So, if you are developing Swing yourself, consider switching to 1.3 soon after is t is released.

Chris: I like it a lot. I haven't used the Beta yet, but 2.1.2 is quite nice. I've also used JBuilder, and Developer 2.1.2 is much better on resources (memory, and such) and response time.

Christine Bodo:: In response to Chris's comment: We are really excited about the NetBeans technology. To try out more than just 2.1.2, developers can currently download the Forté for Java, Community Edition 1.0 beta (available free of charge), and the Forté for Java, Internet Edition which provides additional tools for J2EE development including JSP, Servlet, CORBA, and EJB tools, NetBeans.com

Rick Hightower: A few weeks back you had a poll on your NetBeans website that spoke about adding support for JPython. What kind of support do you plan to add for JPython? Scripting for NetBeans IDE? (GOOD) An extension that compiles and runs JPython? (BETTER) (JPython is a free language that compiles and runs in the Java^TM Virtual Machine¹(JVM)

Ian Formanek: In response to Rick: With this poll we were evaluating what scripting languages people use most. The addition of scripting to the IDE is planned as an extension, which would address both of the usages you mentioned. Actually, once you do one, the second is for free.

MDR-edO: On the performance issue, have you benchmarked the performance of Forté for Java against other IDEs? If so, how does it compare?

Jeff: Do you have any plans to support JSP?

Ian Formanek: In response to MDR-edO: There are no exact comparison data available, mainly because it is hard to measure this in any exact numbers. We focus more on providing very good functionality while keeping the performance at a level that will please the developers.

Christine Bodo:: In response to Jeff's question regarding JSPs: The Forté for Java, Community Edition 1.0 when released will include a JSP wizard which gives you the ability to create a JSPs from one or more pages. You can specify packages and beans from packages/attributes to use. For a full-featured integrated JSP tool, look for the Forté for Java, Internet Edition which will have a full-featured JSP tool, available for sale in June of next year. We'd like to hear your input on what you need from a JSP tool. To do so, go to the NetBeans site and submit feedback, or join the Early Access program mailing list.

Rick Hightower: Excellent, I am glad to hear that you are adding JPython support for Forté CE. I know I will use it. I think JPython is great! Having an IDE that supports it and allows compiling and integrating is great. Do have plans to support any other languages that compile or run in the JVM? Rhino (JavaScript), Bistro (Smalltalk), Skij (Scheme), etc. Also there are versions of JSP that work with Python (JPython) and JavaScript. Will your JSP support other JSP languages?

lekong: It seems to me that Forté for Java will replace Java Workshop^TM because it has all the features of JWS and a lot more?

Christine Bodo:: In response to Rick Hightower: You are absolutely right. The Forté for Java tools replace Java Workshop, and provide a complete suite of integrated development environments for J2SE and J2EE development. Forté for Java, Community Edition will continue to be available free to the development community.

Ian Formanek: Regarding Rick's question about other languages: there are currently no plans to provide such support in the basic version, but one of the nice effects of the Open APIs is that any 3rd party, being it a company or a Linux opensource team or a single developer, can very easily write new add-on modules to the IDE. And the stuff you mentioned is very good example of things that may be supported by other parties.

MDR-edO: How can users submit feedback and/or additional requirements for Forté for Java Community Edition?

ph: Does your form builder require me to use some proprietary stuff of components? In other words, will I have to package my application with some sort of runtime?

Ian Formanek: Definitely not, our main goal throughout the IDE was to support open standards and not to introduce any proprietary parts, which would then cause a lock-in for our users. This is not only true for the GUI Builder, but also for other code generators in the IDE.

Christine Bodo:: To submit feedback or additional requirements, there are two options, either through the feedback alias on the NetBeans web site, or by joining the Early Access Program. The best way to participate in the Forté for Java development is to join the EAP mailiing list which is a great forum to submit your wish list, and have your questions answered about the Community and Internet Edition IDEs.

MDR-edO: How do you migrate code from Forté for Java Community Edition to other Forté IDEs?

MDR-edO: The number of questions in the queue has slimmed down, so now's a good time to ask a question if you have one.

Ian Formanek: In response to MDR-edO's question about migration: We will release an integrated product line, which also means that code created using the Community Edition can be used in the Internet and Enterprise editions.

BHM: What are all the platforms the IDE will be available on?

Christine Bodo:: In response to BHM's question, Forté for Java Community Edition is cross-platform compatible, since it is written in Java. We have made it easy for developers to load the IDE into their environment by providing four versions: .rpm file for Linux, .sh for Unix, .exe for Windows, and a .class file. The nice thing about this is that you can use our IDE in multiple environments, let's say if you are developing on Solaris and Windows.

Jeff: Any plans with the JPDA/JVMDI ?

Ian Formanek: In Respond to Jeff's JPDA question: We currently support both the older sun.tools.debug debugger implementation *and* JPDA. the older debugger will still be useful to debug 1.1 applications, where JPDA provides more functionality (such as breakpoints on Exceptions, Class loading/unloading) and better performance. The JPDA support in the IDE will be available with the JDK 1.3 final release.

Christine Bodo:: Before the session is over, I'll ask a question for anyone to respond to. Is anyone running the Community Edition on Linux and what else do you want to see in the free tool?

Jeff: I'm running in Linux

MDR-edO: We're scheduled to end at the top of the hour (noon, Pacific time). So please get your questions in now.

Christine Bodo:: Jeff: Is the Community Edition environment full featured enough for what you are doing? Are you using CVS?

Jeff: But in general I like my IDEs *very* plain and basic. Just a nice editor and debugger. I have never liked any visual GUI editing tools. I really don't like IDEs such as Cafe which are very much integrated to a specific version of the JDK because of their visual editing tools.

MDR-edO: Well we're approaching the end of the session. I want to thank all who have participated. We've had some good questions and answers. I'd like to especially thank our guests, Christine Bodo: and Ian Formanek (and his team). Christine Bodo:: Thanks to everyone for joining us. Don't forget to check our web site to download the latest versions, including the released version of Forté for Java, Community Edition at beginning of March. Goodbye

Ian Formanek: Goodby everyone and thanks for your questions.

MDR-edO: Last moderator (me) signing off. The forum is now unmoderated

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¹ As used on this web site, the terms "Java Virtual Machine" or "JVM" mean a virtual machine for the Java platform.

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