| javaADM |
Hi Everyone and thanks for joining
us. Peter's currently experiencing server problems.... |
| javaADM |
Until the server problems are
"solved", let's do this remotely, where I relay
questions to peter over the telephone |
| javaADM |
Hi Everyone and thanks for joining
us. |
| javaADM |
My name is John Zukowski, the ever
present guide to Java here at About.com |
| javaADM |
Tonight, we're fortunate enough to
have Peter van der Linden with us, (on the telephone) |
| javaADM |
Peter is the author of Just Java, Not Just Java, as well as some
books on practical jokes |
| javaADM |
In his spare time, Peter maintains
the Java Programmer's
FAQ and |
| javaADM |
leads a team of kernel developers
at Sun Microsystems |
| javaADM |
During the chat session, we
welcome and expect questions, here's how to ask: |
| javaADM |
please type ? and you will put you
in the queue |
| javaADM |
In addition, we have a copy of Just Java 2 to give away at
the end of the session |
| javaADM |
We'll be looking for the
participant who asks the best question (or who needs it
the most) |
| javaADM |
And, you must be present to win |
| Jon |
Ok, when do you justify use of
reflections package despite performance hits? |
| javaADM |
From peter: That's an interest
question |
| javaADM |
The reflection package is more
there from tools developers, than applications developers |
| javaADM |
What are you trying to use it for? |
| javaADM |
and yes, there is quite a high
performance hit... |
| Jon |
Well, I used it for a PrintStream
that was really just a way to log asychronously. |
| javaADM |
cool, intesting idea, not really
what its meant for... |
| Jon |
I got the 20 some Methods and
arguments onto a queue. |
| javaADM |
What is the object you are getting
ahold of such that you can look atwhat call is being
invoked? |
| Jon |
Ended up instead using a Command
pattern without reflection package eventhough |
| Jon |
it was a lot more code. |
| |
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| Rich |
? What is the target audience for
your book (beginner, intermediate, etc) |
| javaADM |
Interesting concept to use
reflection for |
| Jon |
Each method of my
"MultiPrintStream extends PrintStream" had a
constant of the |
| Rich |
? What sets your book apart from
the many other Java books available |
| Jon |
cooresponding method of
PrintStream. |
| hag |
?I'm impressed that you work at
sun , what do you do? |
| javaADM |
Yes... that should work, but you
will notice the performance penalty... |
| |
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| javaADM |
Let's move on to the next question |
| javaADM |
For Just Java... the book is
written for people who know one programming language |
| javaADM |
Its a huge job to teach
programming as well |
| javaADM |
So, if people already know
FORTRAN, Pascal, C, or VB, then they are in the target
audience |
| javaADM |
There are other books for people
who don't know programming at all, like Dietel &
Dietel |
| javaADM |
So, Just Java doesn't try to teach
programming, just Java |
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| javaADM |
regarding what sets it apart...
Its well enough liked that its in the 4th edition |
| javaADM |
Its very strongly based on
practical experience |
| javaADM |
Not many books in 4th edition.... |
| hag |
?my boss tells me the trade
journals say java is dead... what do you know about that? |
| javaADM |
All the things I write, I try to
make them interesting... When I was learning C++ about 10
years ago..._ |
| javaADM |
The volumes were huge with no
glimmer of anything intersting |
| javaADM |
So, I tried to make Just Java
interesting, as programming is supposed to be fun |
| javaADM |
So, I came with it from that
angle. |
| javaADM |
On to hag's q... |
| javaADM |
I work in a team of kernel
wackers... We work on the Solaris kernel. |
| javaADM |
I lead the team of kernel
wackers... |
| Jon |
?Does the kernal wacking have to
do with Java? |
| javaADM |
Regarding Java being reported as
dead in trade journals... |
| javaADM |
I'd have to go with Mark Twain,
reports of Java's death are hugely exagerated |
| javaADM |
There are a huge # of people with
a stake in Java succeeding |
| Rich |
I'd agree |
| javaADM |
With a small # of people who have
a stake in saying Java is dead. |
| javaADM |
Of course, that small group is
very noisey.... |
| javaADM |
It might be time in getting a new
boss.... ;-) |
| |
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| javaADM |
Always nice to meet agreeable
people.... |
| hag |
I love java but am still too
ignorant about it to sell it well. He is interested I
think |
| Rich |
?What do you think about EJB
comparing it to DCOM and CORBA |
| |
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| javaADM |
hag - have you had a chance to
look at Not Just Java? Its a primer about Java technology
that doesn't try to teach the language |
| javaADM |
Its full of information about
where to use (and not use) Java |
| javaADM |
It discusses all the latest
Internet technology |
| |
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| javaADM |
A question from Peter --- |
| javaADM |
What kinds of Java systems are
people working on? 2-tier, 3-tier, applets.... |
| |
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| javaADM |
WHile waiting on answers... |
| Rich |
3-tier, Applets on the client, EJB
on the server w/mainframe and oracle db backends |
| javaADM |
EJB has support from the whole
industry... simplicity of model, portability |
| Jon |
EJB, JSP, Weblogic 4.5 |
| javaADM |
Wow... excellent stuff |
| javaADM |
Looks like people are kinda on the
cutting edge here |
| Rich |
We're using weblogic as well,
watching websphere being a big IBM customer |
| javaADM |
The weakness of EJB is that it is
still fairly young, in the early days, not as well
established as things like CORBA |
| javaADM |
Rich, That sounds like a good
project to work on... when do you go live? |
| Rich |
First version in production,
second getting ready for business test |
| javaADM |
By the way, the kernel wacking has
nothing to do with Java. |
| hag |
?is oracle the best database to
use with java? |
| Jon |
BTW, about how hot Java is now see
the following article... |
| Jon |
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,40384,00.html |
| javaADM |
impressive Rich... |
| javaADM |
kernal.... Building a GUI in Java.
Quite a reach for kernel developers and the team |
| javaADM |
Very successful in doing that,
with some encouragement from Peter.. |
| javaADM |
By the way Rich, your services
will be in quite a bit of demand... |
| javaADM |
Regarding Oracle.... Its an early
adopter, they are a good company, leading company |
| Rich |
Tell me about it, I'm on the other
end, always looking for developers |
| javaADM |
However, there are other
alternatives that will serve you equally well... |
| javaADM |
lol |
| Rich |
?Do you think the object dbs are
going to take off . . . and perform |
| javaADM |
Regarding CNET article... we all
saw that article... |
| javaADM |
Passed article around, pinned on
bosses door |
| javaADM |
Inevitable.... |
| javaADM |
Good to finally get the
recognition |
| hag |
I saw one about more programmers
learning or wanting to learn java... is that it? |
| javaADM |
As a possible source for job
leads... Java Lobby just started a new mailing list for Java jobs |
| Jon |
For our system, we are having a
shoot out between Oracle and ODI's ObjectStore 6. |
| Rich |
hag - yes and the salaries they
draw |
| Jon |
A technically savvy VP has
orchestrated the "shoot out". |
| hag |
well I would do it for less pay
just to do it as l really like it. |
| javaADM |
Regarding object db's.... Its a
hard question to answer, without more specifics |
| javaADM |
Sounds like an interesting shoot
out, and Oracle is a very dynamic company that doesn't
like to lose... ;-) |
| javaADM |
Larry seems to be a bit of a
Samurai, with his Japanese garden and all... |
| Jon |
Right. I'm looking forward to
seeing who is still standing when its all over. |
| Rich |
?Business Objects on top of a
relation db are a lot of work to implement |
| javaADM |
Another q from Peter.... |
| javaADM |
Has anyone written any code to get
a Web camera to be served by Java? |
| Rich |
?Object databases seem to make it
easier and cleaner but with a big performance hit |
| hag |
not I |
| Rich |
?at least for the time being . |
| Jon |
That's interesting. ODI claims
that performance is the one area where they know they
trump Oracle. |
| |
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| javaADM |
Guess we have no takers on the
Java camera... Peter was trying this at the beginning of
the year |
| |
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| Rich |
Jon - interesting |
| javaADM |
without luck I might add |
| javaADM |
some kind of flakey dialog box
problem... |
| Jon |
Can't wait to see if its true. |
| |
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| javaADM |
it was a horrible experience... |
| javaADM |
Has anyone tried Java and Linux? |
| javaADM |
And.... how are you finding it? |
| Rich |
http://www.capecodusa.com/craigbeachcam.asp
has an Applet viewer |
| hag |
?I have visual cafe and jbuilder,
which is worth learning or should i stick with straight
code. |
| javaADM |
sent URL to peter, he'll check |
| javaADM |
Here's Peter's take... |
| javaADM |
It comes down to personal
preferences |
| javaADM |
My preferences is just an editor
and a DOS windows |
| javaADM |
That's what I recommend to others |
| javaADM |
Once they master the basics |
| javaADM |
THEN they can switch to an IDE, if
they like it |
| javaADM |
That way, people can learn how to
create a GUI and understand how things are going on |
| javaADM |
Both VC and JB are good products |
| javaADM |
Try them both and go with the one
you like best |
| javaADM |
From John, personally... I like
JBuilder.... |
| javaADM |
VisualAge for Java is another good
alternative |
| Jon |
I concur with that recommendation
on the progression. Don't let an IDE prevent you from
learning at the early stages. |
| Jon |
Once your are proficient, try out
the IDE. |
| hag |
I really need to figure out how to
use java with the as400 so I can sell my boss on it |
| javaADM |
Of course... if you come from a
strong PC development background, stuck in a Visual Basic
world (or IDE in general)... |
| Rich |
Jon - I agree and once proficient,
you pobably won;t like the code the IDE generates anyway |
| javaADM |
It might be best to go with the
IDE... |
| |
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| javaADM |
JBuilder has a AS/400 version |
| javaADM |
Not aware of other IDEs, that
aren't written in pure Java |
| javaADM |
IBM itself is a huge supporter of
Java, every bit as deeply commited to Sun |
| hag |
I wonder about visual age, Ithink
that is the one by ibm. |
| javaADM |
After decades of failed projects,
Java presents a way to integrate all their software for
all their systems |
| javaADM |
If you are using IBM computers,
Java is a good safe choice for you |
| javaADM |
Maybe you can get the IBM sales
reps to help... ;-) |
| hag |
tell my boss |
| javaADM |
Peter has a quick story... |
| javaADM |
The URL for cape cod reminded
me... |
| Jon |
Maybe there is an email list
somewhere focusing on AS/400 and Java? If so, you could
probably find all the justification there. |
| javaADM |
I went to Nantucket island....
such a remote place that it isn't even on the mainland |
| javaADM |
and the first thing I saw when I
got off the ferry was an ISP/Internet Cafe.. |
| javaADM |
Kinda like the first time someone
who got saved at Yosemite got saved with a cell phone |
| javaADM |
Nowadays, either case is
common/expected.... |
| javaADM |
I'm looking for the same kind of
changes now that Palm has a built in JVM |
| javaADM |
Not sure about an email list, but
I know of a newsgroup. |
| javaADM |
If you go to the IBM website, you
should be able to search. |
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| Jon |
?Do you think Java2 will ever make
it into the browsers, AOLscape, I suppose? And do you
think that browser will be widely distributed? |
| hag |
I would love love love to learn
how to do that palm stuff!!! |
| Jon |
This chat session could be much
nicer with Java2 and Swing1.1.1. |
| javaADM |
Looking for AS/400 resource... |
| hag |
I saw an article by a guy who got
a palm piot at java one and talked about it neat stuff! |
| javaADM |
http://www.ibm.com/java/jdk/ is a good place
to start for AS/400... |
| Rich |
Jon - Try java plug-in from sun
for Java2 in your browser |
| hag |
thank you kindly |
| Jon |
Right, but why I bring it up is
for Internet, not Intranet. We would have a lot more
power. |
| javaADM |
Regarding Java 2in the browser... |
| javaADM |
The Netscape-AOL-Sun alliance
makes this a certainty |
| javaADM |
Company VPs are EXTREMELY
motivated to make it happen ASAP |
| javaADM |
Why hasn't it happened yet?
Because Microsoft just KILLED Netscape.... |
| Jon |
Do we know if it will be 1.2.2 or
the Kestrel release? |
| javaADM |
They really demoralized/crushed
that company |
| javaADM |
and they are just recovering |
| javaADM |
From what Peter has heard, it will
be pluggable... |
| javaADM |
So, in Netscape 5.... |
| javaADM |
it won't have the inconvenience of
the actual plugin |
| hag |
micro ssssssssssssssssssssssssoft |
| javaADM |
From everything we can tell,
Microsoft seems to want to disengage from Java |
| javaADM |
so.... when IE will support Java 2
w/o plugin is unknown |
| Rich |
MS is signing up other vendors for
java support in the next visual studio |
| hag |
what does that mean? |
| Rich |
Other vendor are writting java dev
tools that will be part of visual studio |
| javaADM |
from John here.... Microsoft has
paid other companies to create clean room implementations
of Java |
| javaADM |
invested is probably a better
word... |
| javaADM |
these other versions supposedly
will support the extensions Microsoft put into their
version of Java |
| javaADM |
The ones that causes some legal
problems in the courtroom |
| javaADM |
How/If developers will accept
these versions (with the extensions) is yet to be seen,
as Visual J++ use seems to be dropping |
| javaADM |
back to Peter now... |
| Jon |
?Does anyone have a sense when Mac
will support Java2? |
| Rich |
?Java performace - will hotspot
ease the problems or do you see native compiler becoming
more prevalent |
| javaADM |
You'll have to talk to APple about
that one... ;-) |
| javaADM |
[peter] I have always thought that
Mac folks were hard at work on Java 2 porting |
| Jon |
Just digging for rumors. ;-) |
| mmb |
I have a non-java ? for John and
Peter. More oriented to the book publishing world. Do
these chats help promote your books - or do you find them
more of a hassle. Do the publishers set these up? |
| javaADM |
Saw a post on usenet that said
Apple was "evaluating" Java 2 and try to see
what they should do with it |
| javaADM |
That would seem to imply not much
going on with it, but there is much to be gained by
supporting it |
| hag |
is peter planning another book ? |
| javaADM |
Already, we are seeing that
HotSpot is running faster than C++ on some code,
including floatint point benchmarks |
| javaADM |
People are continuing to improve
Hot Spot |
| javaADM |
I think that it reduces the
pressure to move to native compilers |
| javaADM |
I think the sole remaining problem
is improving performance |
| javaADM |
Last year was Swing bugs, this
year is Swing performance |
| Jon |
?About HotSpot, will vendors like
IBM, Symantec, and others be able to build improved
versions of HotSpot much like they have with JITs? |
| |
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| javaADM |
From Peter's perspective.... I
always accept all speaking engagements, chats, etc. It
keeps me in touch with the readers, what they are
interested in, and what they want |
| javaADM |
From John's perspective... I would
tend to agree with Peter.... though I try to only go to
fun or interesting places |
| javaADM |
Publishers tend to set the chats
up, but not always |
| javaADM |
Peter is planning several ...
great book ideas... Other responsibilities keep him from
acting on them |
| javaADM |
As soon as possible, Peter will be
working on them |
| Jon |
?Is it in your contract to do PR
stuff like chats, tours? |
| hag |
yes the kernal wacking .... |
| javaADM |
One idea is to write about the
design and building of a new computer system in Silicon
Valley... |
| hag |
go kernal |
| Jon |
...book contract that is. |
| javaADM |
[not more practical jokes] |
| javaADM |
re: HotSpot, answer is probably
yes, but not speaking officially.... can only improve
Java... cannot see why anyone would be against it |
| javaADM |
contract doesn't include chats or
tours |
| javaADM |
Thanks everyone for coming... it
looks like our chat session is coming to a close |
| javaADM |
we do still have the issue of a
prize |
| javaADM |
The winner of this evenings Just
Java prize is hag... |
| MrKellyHOST |
On behalf of about.com I'd like to
thank Mr. van der Linden |
| javaADM |
If hag can stay around a little,
we can get shipping info... |
| Jon |
Thanks everyone. Enjoyed it. |
| MrKellyHOST |
For his time tonight |
| Rich |
THanks |
| hag |
oh man! I am certainly in need !
thanks thanks!! |
| javaADM |
Peter says thanks and goodnite |
| Rich |
bye |
| |
............................ Rich left............. |
| javaADM |
Look for the log online soon |
| MrKellyHOST |
Thank you javaADM |
