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Interview with Gary Rivlin, author of The Plot To Get Bill Gates
Read Diva's Review: On Bill, his Mini-Me's, and the Linux Alternative
Read an Excerpt from the Book!
Read the Bio of Gary Rivlin, more reviews, and the book jacket!
Last month I reviewed Gary's book and seemed to have
stirred up a small tempest regarding
women in the computer industry. I use Linux and that OTHER OS and NewsTrolls is running on Linux and Apache, so it seemed natural to me to bring up dick-swizzling and the Linux community. I recieved many emails from other women and men in the Linux community, and in the computer industry in general who were thankful I had brought the subject up. I also recieved from some men the "Shut up, you fucking Femi-Nazi" emails I've come to expect anytime a woman questions the status quo. I heard a lot of stories and received some *interesting* examples of sexist bullshit infiltrating Linux like this
GIMP tutorial on layering . I decided to ask Gary (Thanks, Gary!), the author of The Plot To Get Bill Gates, some questions about women in computing, Linux, Bill, and the other dick-swizzlers...
1. Because of the power of the men you cover, do you ever feel that there
are things about them that are never said out of fear for their power?
Sure, there are people around powerful people--people who have been crushed
or otherwise burned by powerful people like Bill Gates--who no doubt mute
themselves out of fear of retaliation. But it cuts both ways: look at a guy
like Gates. When he was around 18 year old he went on a date--and years
later the woman tells a reporter that first question out of Gates's mouth is
to ask her about her SAT score. Power is a funny thing: people cower to it,
and people put the powerful on a pedestal, but so high a profile also means
that you're prey for every reporter seeking a notch on his or her belt.
That's something I play with in the book--to understand Gates not only as a
ruthless businessman, but to use his story as a way of exploring fame in our
culture.
2. Have you ever self-edited (consciously or not) due to their power?
When I read a draft of something I've written, I imagine the person I'm
writing about reading the words I've put down on paper. But I do that more
out of a sense of fairness and balance rather than out of any fear of
reprisal. Look at a Gates or a Larry Ellison: two very powerful figures. As
you note in your review, I'm hardly treating them with kid gloves. I
basically call Ellison a very bright sociopath, and Gates--well, I call
Gates to many things to list here.
3. What is your analysis of women in the industry?
Wow, that question really sets me up to make an overly generalized
statement. I think there aren't nearly enough women in high tech. I think
that continues to be a problem among the dot-com startups. I think the world
of high tech is very male-oriented (witness the kind of stuff you point out
in your review--the nude women screen savers, the macho nature of the
verbiage, etc.) and that has meant fewer opportunities for women (it's also
meant that women have left positions of power at places such as Microsoft
and Oracle, examples of which I offer in theb book). There've been some
real luminaries in the industry, such as Grace Hopper, so it's not like
women haven't made a contribution. But do I have an "analysis" of the women
in high-tech? There are too many to think there's one overarching type, or
anything like that.
4. Do you think the Old Boys Network is as alive and well as ever with the
new twist being that's it's younger men?
Back in early '95, when I was doing the initial spade work for this book, I
sat in a symposium listening to an entrepreneur from a successful startup
tell folks how his company came to secure a seven-figure check from a
venture capitalist. He was full of talk how anyone can do it, it just takes
a great idea and drive and commitment, blah blah blah. During the Q&A,
though, someone asked him specifically how he landed with his VC. Turns out
he had gone to Stanford biz school, he knew someone who knew Will Hearst,etc.
A lot of people call Silicon Valley a meritocracy. And I don't doubt that
women and men with no connections who arrive here can make it but for them
the bar is so much higher. Hell, yah, there's still a powerful Old Boys
Network--even though there's a developing network for women, who you know
still counts for an awful lot.
5. Do you think there's any hope for some balance in the Linux community?
I'm not sure what you mean by this question but let me take a stab. I've
attended a couple of LUG (Linux User Group) meetings, I've interviewed many
Linux advocates, I've done my share of lurking on a mailing list where peple
extol the virtues of Linux. I don't think it'd be overgeneralizing to say
that those who believe in Linux REALLY believe in Linux, and that a great
many believe Linux is the operating system that will deliver us from
Windows. Well, I think that's overly optimistic but I've got a real soft
spot for true believers. Evangelism for a product like Linux--especially in
face of the marketing might of Windows (like, take a gander at ANY glossy
magazine, and you'll see pages upon pages of MSFT ads)--is essential. So
forget balance--yell Linux's virtues as loud as you can from the rooftops. I
don't think Linux will ever by the OS of choice on the desktop, but I think
Linux has enormous potential as the OS of choice on the server side. And
wouldn't that be the ultimate irony--if it wasn't Larry Ellison, or Scott
McNealy, or any of these Captain Ahabs obsessed with the Great White Whale
of Redmond, but the byproduct of a band of rebels who don’t stand to make
money off their efforts.
6. How much do you feel Cold War rhetoric has influenced tech buisnesspractices?
None. I think it's the reverse--the moguls and wannabe moguls see business
in macho sports-like, war-like terms, so they (and the rest of us, actually)
turn to the rhetoric of war (and sports) to talk about the competition. I
found myself constantly editing myself to try and strip away the war/sports
references but try writing about some of this stuff without terms like"battle."
7. Do you think tech would be farther along if there wasn't so much
power-tripping? (aside: or what I call dick-swizzling)
Diva, my dearest, I think "dick-swizzling" is brilliant! That phrase made
me laugh out loud when I read your review. Yes, yes, yes--we'd all be far
better off without Larry Ellison's dick swizzling motivations for wasting
everyone's time with the Network Computer. And I think Java would be further
along if McNealy wasn't so preoccupied with this boy's game of figuring out
whose is bigger.
8. What do you think of Sun, IBM, and others co-opting of Linux?
Co-opting? Isn't Sun, IBM, Oracle, etc joining the Linux bandwagon key to
its success? I didn't write book about Linux and that world--so I'm no
expert--but I thought that two key stumbling block in its way has been (1)
lack of applications; (2) lack of credibility inside corporate America.
Wouldn't Sun, IBM, etc agreeing to join the Linux bandwagon lend the cause
credibility--not to mention practical applications???
9. Do you think they are into Linux because it's open or simply because it
represents an alternative to Bill?
Shoot, it has NOTHING to do with a belief in open systems. I'd say it's a
combo of two things: two parts a way of sticking it to Gates, one-part a
potential money-making effort. Larry Ellison envies and hates Bill Gates but
Oracle's database products have been ported to NT--because as much of a
hard-on as he has for Gates, the best revenge would be to surpass Gates's
net worth.
10. What's our problem with Bill? (Is it that he's just not grateful enough
to us for his success and money?)
He has a gluttinous appetite, he fights nasty, he uses his monopoly money to
crush his foes--and at the same time he whines about the unfairness of the
world. He's the world's richest victim, the wounded boy who--though he's the
lord and master of the computer universe--has a persecution complex. Too,
he's invented nothing, he's coopted the ideas of others--yet he and his PR
people want us to him as a visionary. I could go on but suffice it to say he
embodies a series of very unpleasant combinations--that's OUR problem with Gates.
11. What would you do with all Bill's money?
Retire. Figure out how to do good in the world. Lead a fuller life. Keep
writing books but take more time to do them right.
12. Is Bill's star still rising or has it started to fall?
Certainly it's starting to fall. For years he enjoyed reputation as the
accidental billionaire, the genius nerd who got lucky. But the curtain has
been pulled back and we all have gotten true glimpse--the Great Oz ain't the
Great Oz after all, but a small-minded voracious businessman whose true
prowess is as a businessman, not as a computer coder. People inside the
industry have known this for a long time, but now this perspective is
seeping into the popular press, thanks to Gates/Microsoft's arrogance in
last couple of years.
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